ESWDATWP00Eagletips Eagle Protocol :8u뭠@H Tpl&* ,"a a> D+&* " aG`B :NBDX HHHH@8,thdu]WdHHHH~P \ddddddd4ddddLd H 0 cbn&:N_` Wll?X#p$&(,*m a.0  ݈p p"pp"  j,E^@<@ @U @9 @@@;@;<@^@@HH @@@@@f@<@lH/@>@?@m@n\@|Pq@N[@@@!@PQ@Gr@ @r@@w{ @@@ @ ! @ am-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- =-=-=-=-=- om: WKUVX2::"pp"pp '  4@ N [ h @ @    + u E 8@ R _ y             / " < V c I@ }    A p @  EAGTIP22 [The unofficial official "Eagle Protocol" file. This file also contains information about wearing the Eagle Medal by adults, the wearing of the Eagle Palms on the square knot, and in the proper attire for Scouts and Scouters attending Eagle Courts of Honor.] From: Tom Foss I've just received an invitation to the Eagle COH of the son of a friend (and former employee). The Scout is also a former (summer) employee, and I'm assuming I've been invited because I wrote a letter of recommendation for the young man before his Eagle Board of Review. I have no other connection with this young man's scouting career. Based on earlier comments, I thought I'd take my eight year old son (working on his Bear badge) to the COH (the invitation came to "The Foss Family") -- I though it might make a good impression on my son, and give him a vision of where he might want to go with Scouting. The questions I need help with are: 1. Should my son wear his Cub Scout uniform? 2. Should I wear MY uniform, as Assistant Cubmaster of my son's pack? Remember, I have no link to the Eagle's unit -- I don't want to appear to have an "official" presence if it's not warranted! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- From: WKUVX2::WALTOML "Settummanque, the blackeagle" Tom Foss writes: >I've just received an invitation to the Eagle COH of the son of a friend >(and former employee). The Scout is also a former (summer) employee, and >I'm assuming I've been invited because I wrote a letter of recommendation >for the young man before his Eagle Board of Review. I have no other >connection with this young man's scouting career. Please send this young man our combined congrats, Tom! >Based on earlier comments, I thought I'd take my eight year old son >(working on his Bear badge) to the COH (the invitation came to "The Foss >Family") -- I though it might make a good impression on my son, and give >him a vision of where he might want to go with Scouting. I think that you should take your entire family, since the invite was for them. Make sure that this is fine with the Eagle and his family, since they may have been counting "one" when you are bringing three or more. >1. Should my son wear his Cub Scout uniform? Definately, if HE desires to. Since the Court of Honor is for the Eagle, you should (IMO) avoid "making him" wear his shirt. Tell him that it's a formal, important occasion and that most of the others in attendance will also be in "complete Scout uniform". But if he doesn't feel confortable wearing it, don't push it. It is the *experience of seeing the Eagle Court of Honor* that you're after, nothing else. C & >zBFZn~*nf j`^_X$@RHH[` W66ubX0@&(*.,ea<> ?? @"pp"pp"pp[` W6u)X"p246:8ea@B ? @"pp"pp"pp(  [,EW66ubX'a<>4 ?A? N"[Ch"GCu">C 'a@B4 ANH[,EW66hbX0u(*.,e<> <>L 0 >&*H 0e &* ? l bn&:N_` Wll?X# p$&(,*m a.0 `` V p pp"pp"  j,E^@U,@? @@A@m H@ @Em@@ @,@@ @>  @J @v@@h w i /@@@"@#\@m@r@ @@m@A@ @ @@Y@{@_@@@2@3@b@Ec%E@D's  way, but asomething t > think abo ... > > The"pp"pp  + E @ R _ l y          @ " / < I V c p    4  A }@  u N h  @  8 @   [  -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- From: "R.P.Stawicki" Tom, regarding your questions about wearing the uniforms. ABSOLUTELY. By doing so you show that you not only support Scouting in general, but that you support the new Eagle as well. After all, you were considered important enough to be asked for a letter. And have your son wear his as well, the same applies. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- From: Andrew Heath >I've just received an invitation to the Eagle COH of the son of a friend >... >The questions I need help with are: > >1. Should my son wear his Cub Scout uniform? >2. Should I wear MY uniform, as Assistant Cubmaster of my son's pack? > Remember, I have no link to the Eagle's unit -- I don't want to > appear to have an "official" presence if it's not warranted! If it were for my troop, I hope that you would!, This shows your relationship to the scouting program in general. It will also help instill pride in the uniform to your son, as well as for the scouts from the troop at the COH. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- From: Jim Sleezer On Tue, 15 Nov 1994 12:00:05 -0500 Tom Foss said: >1. Should my son wear his Cub Scout uniform? Since your son was "included" in the invitation, he should have the opportunity to accept or reject the invitation as you (jointly) decide. As a bear, I always wanted to attend such events but I knew other bears that did not and were bored when forced to attend by parents. Most of them chose other activities than scouting by the time they were 11. If I attended, I would probably (as a bear) wear my uniform because it was a Scout event and because I was proud of my uniform. On occasion, I went to events in "civies" because it was enroute to or after another non-Scout event where my uniform would not have been appropriate. Encourage your son to wear his uniform but don't require it since he is not an "official" participant. >2. Should I wear MY uniform, as Assistant Cubmaster of my son's pack? > Remember, I have no link to the Eagle's unit -- I don't want to > appear to have an "official" presence if it's not warranted! I would definately recommend wearing your uniform. It is a scout event and proper uniform is always proper. Besides, if you wrote a letter, your "official" presence has already been noted. Now you need to look the part! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- From: Kathleen Burton Here's another uniform question: Is it appropriate, or is it a nice gesture, for a Girl Scout wear her uniform to an Eagle Court of Honor? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- From: "Chris Haggerty, Sierra Vista, Arizona" Eagle Scout Courts of Honor are (or should be) formal events. Not that people need to wear N & >>zBFZn~*nf j`^_X$@RHH[` W66ubX0@&(*.,ea<> ?? @"pp"pp"pp[` W6u)X"p246:8ea@B ? @"pp"pp"pp(  @V'V@4N4@A@NNH[L@huzyf\ y '"4AN[huL0\T D4\@ d bn&:N_` Wll?X# p$&(,*m a.0 N ppp"pp" HL@pgi 3 @% ]@m@ @HA@,@@0@ Qi  @@ F@ @@@.@M $@h@i@@#@@@8@9@_ @a@p@D@ /@c@d@?e@@  @h @Ew ESWDATWP00olor hiftSQRWVK66"pp"pp4 N [ h @   + 8 u@ R l y   _@          " / < I V c } p@   @ '  @ E    A` >2. Should I wear MY uniform, as Assistant Cubmaster of my son's pack? > Remember, I have no link to the Eagle's unit -- I don't want to > appear to have an "official" presence if it's not warranted! The official Scout uniform is VERY appropriate for ANY Scouting event or activity, your unit or anyone else's. The uniform identifies you as part of the same movement that the Eagle is being recognized in. However, the same opinion I gave for your son is also appropriate for you. While there are only a few times in which I did not wear a Scouting uniform of some sort to an Eagle Court of Honor, those times I didn't were simply because I felt that by my wearing my shirt would detract from the young man's recognition. After all, this is HIS night to shine in front of his Maker, his family and friends and in front of his community....and nobody should be allowed to "horn in" on that. Take your son aside before the ceremony starts and tell him that this is extremely important to the young Eagle, and that he should pay attention...because in only a few short years (we all hope), it will be your son's turn to stand there in front of everyone and receive this special award for his hard work and endurance. The *first* Eagle Court of Honor I witnessed was when I was a Bear. Our downstairs neighbor's son (on the first floor, we lived on the forth) received his Eagle from the Troop that I would graduate into. I remember after the ceremony touching Steven Withrow's Eagle and reading the large card certificate that proclaimed that he became an Eagle Scout. I was REALLY impressed! (but that's another story). Tell us all how he (and you) liked the ceremony! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- From: Kevin S Woods On Tue, 15 Nov 1994, Tom Foss wrote: > The questions I need help with are: > > 1. Should my son wear his Cub Scout uniform? > 2. Should I wear MY uniform, as Assistant Cubmaster of my son's pack? > Remember, I have no link to the Eagle's unit -- I don't want to > appear to have an "official" presence if it's not warranted! YES-YES-YES-YES A full uniform is always appropriate at any scouting event. I encourage my sons to wear their uniform with pride, whenever it calls for it. In fact I just had this discussion with my 15 y.o life almost Eagle scout. At this age, some of his friends are feeling skittish about being in public in uniform. I told him That when people see the scout uniform, it represents certain things to them. Among them, Leadership, Knowledge, Courage, Honor and Kindness. My, where do those values come from? Please, encourage these values and pride in our organization and the uniform it represents in all your boys whether your family, troop, pack or anothers! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- From: Dale Mooso My experience with Eagle Courts is that it is entirely appropriate to wear your uniform at this event. This is my own opinion. People who will be invited to my son's Eagle court will be encouraged to wear their uniforms. I guess that may be the key: the Eagle Court is planned and set up by the family of the boy being honored. You might ask them. Again, just my two cents. r anyoneT &pl>zBFZn~*nf j`^_X$@RHH[` W66ubX0@&(*.,ea<> ?? @"pp"pp"pp[` W6u)X" p246:8ea@B ? @"pp"pp"pp(   0@P'4APN[huP2P 'DDATDP004e@` )A@ DN@Z-[@ h@vu@>g@ @PD H bn&:N_` Wll?X# p$&(,*m a.0  1 ppp"pp" HL@ @l@@e@2@]%@'@YZ@S@X@ @^@6 @r@@k@q@*@V @@@j@F RHG_@@Es@L@@T@@ g@@@@$@%@o@@l@@a@B@|C@Tf@@Y@@Lth letters, "pp"pp    @   y@  " @ / < I V c p }    @ N '  @ 4 [ u   @  h 8  A E@  +    Dear Scouters, I am trying to prepare for my son's Eagle Court of Honor. It's about 5 merit badges and a project away. I need to find a source for an Eagle Medal. Mine was lost during the time I was active Duty in the 70's. I am looking for a 1968-1969 era Eagle Medal. I know there are quite a few variations of these around. If someone can point me in the right direction I would greatly appreciate it. Second Question!! Can an Adult Leader wear his Eagle Medal During a COH? I think the answer is NO but I have never seen a reference. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- From: Lynn Mckee Chris Schmidt asked: CS> Second Question!! Can an Adult Leader wear his Eagle Medal During CS>a COH? I think the answer is NO but I have never seen a reference. YES! In fact, I really enjoyed digging mine out recently to wear for several Eagle COHs. It was nice to see many Scouters with thiers on as well. I think it sets a good example, not just to see so many Eagles show up, but to see we are still active and encouraging them to stay active. I'm sure Mike W. has the reference, I think he was the one that posted the info last fall that made me find mine. ;-) -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- From: Fred Rogers On Tue, 9 Aug 1994 09:42:00 -0820, Lynn Mckee writes: > I'm sure Mike W. has the reference, I think he was the one that posted > the info last fall that made me find mine. ;-) The place to find the information about adults wearing the Eagle Medal is the Insignia Guide. The description of the Eagle Medal states that it is for youth and adult wear for formal occasions. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- From: Olan Watkins To Chris Schmidt Chris Write or call John Conley Williams in Waco Texas. He is a long time Scouter that has decided to make a full time bussiness out of his hobby of collecting Scouting material where he could stay at home with his wife and small childern and grow up with them. He is very honest and if he does not have what you want, he will know where to get it for you. His address is P.O. Box 23374 Waco, TX 76702-3374 Pho 817-772-1106 Fax 817-741-9715 -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- From: Chris Schmidt s jo fiI & H>zBFZn~*nf j`^_X$@RHH[` W66ubX0@&(*.,ea<> ?? @"pp"pp"pp[` W6u)X" p246:8ea@B ? @"pp"pp"pp(  a'444AAPANNN[[[hhhuPuu 'DDATDP004ehis includA wearing a Nout Uniform[r other unihrm of a grou you represt or particate in. When e inI  rabn:&N_` Wll?X#p$&(,*m a.0 u Ŋpp p"pp" HL@)@0@/@m@7@z@ @@ @ @o@y@@?@1 }z@ @} ~ ^@ @ x@m v@5 @ @KH/@@@@?@Da@ HGI @@&_@`@a'@?@a@(@1a@@@@ @(@l"pp"pp8 E _ y    @      " / < 4 c p }      N   h ' l@ A   @  + @ R  @  V [ u  tuxes, but they should dress up. This includes wearing a Scout Uniform or other uniform of a group you represent or participate in. When people in the military attend formal events where most of us would wear a suit or what is considered equivilant (in some hot places suits are not worn very often), the military person wears their uniform. Are they there to fight a war? Hopefully not! They were invited with an invitation (which in it self implies some formality) and they dress up in what is considered their dress (formal) cloths, a uniform. A girl scout uniform is NOT OUT OF PLACE, nor is the Canadian Scout Uniform, or (as in my area) a Mexican Scout Uniform, as long as the people are members of the Girl Scouts, Canadian Scouts, or Mexican Scouts. If you are ever in doubt, ask the host for a final say for a particular event. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- From: WKUVX2::WALTOML "Settummanque, the blackeagle" Kathleen Burton writes: >Here's another uniform question: Is it appropriate, or is it a nice >gesture, for a Girl Scout wear her uniform to an Eagle Court of Honor? It's a VERY nice gesture, Kathleen. Sure, let her wear it if she chooses to. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- From: Jim Sleezer On Tue, 15 Nov 1994 16:47:11 -0800 Kathleen Burton said: >Here's another uniform question: Is it appropriate, or is it a nice >gesture, for a Girl Scout wear her uniform to an Eagle Court of Honor? Both. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- From: Bob Sargeant Tom, When it comes to attending any scouting function, it is appropriate for all scouts and scouters to wear their uniforms. It is a sign of solidarity. This is equally true for an eagle court of honor. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- From: Rodger Morris >Here's another uniform question: Is it appropriate, or is it a nice >gesture, for a Girl Scout wear her uniform to an Eagle Court of Honor? Absolutely!!! Both the Boy Scouts and the Girl Guides were founded by Lord Baden-Powell(B-P) and nurtured by both Lord and Lady B-P for decades. Indeed, in London, the Boy Scouts and the Girl guides have shared a common headquarters buiding since about 1911. If a Girl Scout were receiving the Gold Award, I would wear my uniform to her Court of Awards as a gesture of respect to her and to the GSUSA. BTW, I was a Girl Scout for about three years during the 1970s when my kid sister was a Junior and Cadette Girl Scout. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Subj: Eagle Medals Reply-To: CSCHMIDT@disney.image.kodak.com p@ &, >zBFZn~*nf j`^_X$@RHH[` W66ubX0@&(*.,ea<> ?? @"pp"pp"pp[` W6u)X"p246:8ea@B ? @"pp"pp"pp(  ,a'44AAPNN[[hhuPu2P 'DDATDP004ete Scout uAform". ButNf he doesn'[feel conforhble wearingut, don't pu it. It ishe *experience *ex`E  bN:&_` Wll?X#p$&(,*m2 2 a.042  )ppp"pp"  j,E^@+ '@C @ @  @@  H+@ c@@"@ @e HA@@kf, @s5@C@@ @x@@+ @2 @ @Fj @S @ u @v@]@&h@;@<`@p@f@@=@1>@* RZ , particulay for those "pp"pp6 >express BSA policy. I do not dispute them, necessarily, but I would >appreciate a citation to the official BSA source when such an assertion is >made. I feel that would reduce confusion and the possible dissemination of >incorrect information. At least anyone who disagreed could check the >appropriate source. >For example, the question about adult registration for those under 21 is >clearly and succinctly answered by looking at the inside cover of the adult >registration form -- qualifications, #28-501J. There really should not be >any argument about it, IMHO. Two comments, Michael. The first one is that a LOT of Scouters DON'T have instant access to or can get ahold of various BSA (or other organization's) publications. Therefore, stating a form or manual number don't help them too much...they want to know what the answer is. Second, even when you post the manual number, it may be last years' or the 1984 version of the same manual. In this case, there is conflicting information that is PUBLISHED that the Scouter's Committee Chair (or someone) had access to that told him that the Scout cannot be an Assistant Scoutmaster...we don't know that information, so I didn't comment on that part of the question. I answered the question as posted. The WELCOME posting each of us received states in part that each posting reflects the PERSONAL OPINION of the poster, except where official material is referenced or listed...in those cases, the cited reference is listed or explained in sufficient detail as to allow those REALLY interested to seek out what THEIR local organization says "is the bottom line". Remember, in the case of the BSA, while as Kathie and I keep explaining that the "rules are the rules, and everyone needs to be on the same sheet of music", that many local Councils ARE STILL using manuals and publications as GUIDELINES, and NOT as policy. Your local Council is the BEST guidance if you dispute information here. This forum is the SECOND BEST guidance if you still dispute it. >Yes! Any Scout or Scouter in uniform may (indeed, is encouraged to) wear >their medals (not just Eagle, but Silver, Training, etc.) at "formal or dress >occasions." (From Boy Scout Insignia #3064.) In nine local Councils that I know of, the Eagle Scout Medal is the ONLY award that adults can wear at Eagle Courts of Honor. It was justified, because "the event is to honor Eagle Scouts, not to display awards that you have earned or recieved". This goes clearly in the face of what the BSA Insignia Guide (the true name of the booklet you referenced) says. Scouts-L is NOT designed to be the official BSA (or any other organization)'s "sole source of infomation". That is the job of your local Council or equalvent organization. The list WAS designed to answer those questions, just as we've participated here, with references IF THE PERSON REQUESTED THEM, to the appropriate manual, book, poster, or organization. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Subj: Eagle Palms From: MX%"mfbowman@cap.gwu.edu" 4-OCT-1994 01:09:17.27 Chuck, oh  / < I V c p }      @ h  [  @  u@  ' @ 8 E _ y  R   l  @  + "  @ A N    P 0D &@>zBFZn~*nf j`^_X$@RHH[` W66ubX0@&(*.,ea<> ?? @"pp"pp"pp[` W6u)X"p246:8ea@B ? @"pp"pp"pp(  V'@4N44@AAA@NNNH[L[[@hhhuzuuyf\y '"4AN\[Ehu0D">" 0I  iab_` Wll?X#p$&(,*m}}a.0}} p pp"pp"  j,E^@bw@+@4@"@#@`H/N@aC@"@@#7@*@e@&@@@,@H/ @$@a@A@@50@1%@L@r@@a@mR@@@$*@@0@@J@VBGH|@_@`@@8@@.@L@@q@-f@*3l y@ M  Z g t      "pp    @ " / < I c p }  @    _  [   u A h ' 4     @  E l 8@ + R   @   y  "pp Dear Scouters, Thank you all for your responses! I have found a source and will hopefully be purchasing 2 Eagle Medals. One for myself, and one for my son to present to him. Again, thanks for showing the Brotherhood of Scouting to me! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Subj: BSA: Definitive Answer From: John Pannell Sorry, we bantered this about quite recently but I do not remember if a definitive final answer was given. I was invited to an Eagle Court of Honor this Sunday (11/27). May an adult wear the Eagle Medal he earned on his uniform? -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- From: WKUVX2::WALTOML "Settummanque, the blackeagle" John Pannell writes: >May an adult wear the Eagle Medal he earned on his uniform? Yes. With or without palms and in any order he desired with other medals. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- From: "Michael S. Holmes" John, To give a definitive answer to your definite question :-) Yes! Any Scout or Scouter in uniform may (indeed, is encouraged to) wear their medals (not just Eagle, but Silver, Training, etc.) at "formal or dress occasions." (From Boy Scout Insignia #3064.) By, the way, I see a lot opinions expressed on SCOUTS-L which purport to express BSA policy. I do not dispute them, necessarily, but I would appreciate a citation to the official BSA source when such an assertion is made. I feel that would reduce confusion and the possible dissemination of incorrect information. At least anyone who disagreed could check the appropriate source. For example, the question about adult registration for those under 21 is clearly and succinctly answered by looking at the inside cover of the adult registration form -- qualifications, #28-501J. There really should not be any argument about it, IMHO. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- From: WKUVX2::WALTOML "Settummanque, the blackeagle" "Michael S. Holmes" writes: >By, the way, I see a lot opinions expressed on SCOUTS-L which purport to tH &A >zBFZn~*nf j`^_X$@RHH[` W66ubX0@&(*.,ea<> ?? @"pp"pp"pp[` W6u)X"p246:8ea@B ? @"pp"pp"pp(  @V'@4N44@AA@NNNH[L[@hhuzuyf\ y '"4AaN[a hau0@d@q@$H  Kbn&:N_` Wll?Y#p$&(,*m(PN N a.0cN 2 ppp"pp" b&@6@@ &@@@@ @H@2 ^@@E @ j@@\@ @@@7@ %[@zq@F }@@iL@@;@ضHC@P @s@@g@@ @@P@@@< R@@@k@q U  not worn vy often), th"pp"pp  h  @ u 4  + E _ @  @  ' @    8 "  I  / p l V@  }   N  @ @ y  <  AD  R months' Council pouch, copies of the announced changes along with an announcement in _ProSpeak_ would be made available to each staff member and also there would be a "cut out" for insertion in the Council's newsletter about the changes. Finally, about one month after the change was announced, you would read about in "Scouting Around" in _Boy's_Life and "News Briefs" in _Scouting_ (and as one of the first pages in the Direct Service Newsletter). Someone there is pulling your leg big time, Carey. Or someone wants their son to get all three Palms before they turn 18 and cannot do it legally. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- From: "Chris Haggerty, Sierra Vista, Arizona" Carey, It is possible that this topic was dicussed at a NESA convention or conference and maybe suggestted to National. Any change would have to come from National and normally your Councils would be among the first to know. There would be announcements in Scouting for a change this significant before the change was implimented. While this change would be easier to impliment quickly than say the Family Living Merit badge change, I would still expect there to be some advanced notice before it happened, if ever. Besides, Eagle Palms were not meant to be "COMMON". I do not know if such a change is coming or not, but I would not think it very likely in the near future. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- From: "Stanley R. Frager" Doing away with the wait would be a great idea! -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Subj: Eagle ribbon From: Gregory Marr Can anyone answer this question for me? what is the official policy regarding adults wearing the Eagle ribbon (i.e. for Courts of Honor) and the wearing of palms on the eagle knot? I've heard so many different versions that I don't know anymore. please respond directly to me, as I have mail turned off on this list for the summer. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- From: BRUCE C JOHNSON greg: The only youth ranks which may be worn on the adult uniform are Eagle, Quartermaster, Ace, Silver, and Ranger. (That's the emblems with ribbon pendants.) You may, of course, wear the appropriate square knots. You may not wear the Eagle, Ace, Silver, or Ranger patches. Eagle palms are not to be worn on square knots (unless things have changed recently). -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- From: Fred Rogers On Thu, 9 Jun 1994 08:00:08 GMT, BRUCE C JOHNSON writes: > Eagle palms are not to be worn on @ &BE>zBFZn~*nf j`^_5P$@P4LPRHH[` W66ubY0@&(*.,e(Pa<> ?? @"pp"pp"pp[` W6u)Y"p246:8e(Pa@B ? @"pp"pp"pp(  tated that ags'own er Ou4Natio e Ared with Nher medals.[=-=-=-=-=-=h-=-=-=-=-=-u=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- 'John, To g4e @ABEN>N[.BRfhu  ,E^_Xp$_X7 l G"bN:&N_` Wll?Y#p$&(,*m(P a.0 uu ݌ppp"pp"  j,E^@@@ ;@Z @@@@@ b@a@U @s@h@^ 2H/+-@@@4@@W @3@@B @z@L@p@ M"HA/@<@c@'@^A @SG X#X@@V "pp"pp The Scoutmaster has almost total discretion to decide what constitutes making a "satisfactory effort to develop and demonstrate leadership ability." The key thing though, is that we should be encouraging growth and not limiting opportunity to a specific pet project of the SM. I think that as long as a Scout has tried to improve his leaderhip abilities since becoming an Eagle and has tried to use his new skills, that should suffice. Rewarding positive effort is the purpose of recognition awards and here we should try to reward effort. If we keep rewarding effort, eventually the Scout will come to realize his efforts are important and most likely will then or later keep developing his skill. Similarly, if the Scout has made no effort, then he's not ready to wear the palm. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- From: Carey Probst Can anyone help with this one? I have heard from some of the local NESA people that the 3 month wait between Eagle Palms has been eliminated, but the local council office has no information on this or the new requirements. Supposedly the 3 months were eliminated because so many Eagles never received all their palms due to age and the waiting period. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- From: WKUVX2::WALTOML "Settummanque, the blackeagle" Carey Probst writes: >I have heard from some of the local NESA people that >the 3 month wait between Eagle Palms has been >eliminated, but the local council office has no information >on this or the new requirements. > >Supposedly the 3 months were eliminated because so >many Eagles never received all their palms due to age >and the waiting period. It is NOT TRUE. There is NO requirement which states that an Eagle MUST attain all three Palms, anyway. This is *additional recognition* above and beyond the Eagle acheivement, as Paul Wolf's son can attest to. The fax I have here from the Eagle Scout Service states that "there's NO PLANS to alter the requirements or tenure between each earned Palm". It is signed by the "staff of the Eagle Scout Service, National Office, BSA". Normally, Carey, local Councils (and their Council Scout Executives), gets word about changes to the BSA program AT LEAST 60 days BEFORE any changes are released through _Scouting_ or _Boys_Life_ (which explains how I and a couple others here *seem* to know what's going on beforehand....it's just we got "advance warnings" at about the same time as your CE/SE does. Don't ask how). Additionally, ALL professionals are told at least 30 days out through _ProSpeak_ and through direct bulletins sent to the local Council which gets Xeroxed and placed in each staff member's "reading box". This would, if true, be first sent to the CE/SE, for sharing with the Advancement Chair and Committee of the Council (and in two Regions, the Advancement Chair would get a separate mailing or a copy of the original note sent to the Council Executive). Next, in the following   @ '  A [ @ N h @ @ 8  E l    y   R     _@  V  @  I }  u  @    4` PE &>zBFZn~*nf j`^_5P$@ Q4J QRHH[` W66ubY0@&(*.,e(Pa<> ?? @"pp"pp"pp[` W6u)Y"p246:8e(Pa@B ? @"pp"pp"pp(  V'N44@4AA@ANNHNL[[@[hhhzuuuyf\y '"4H/A@N@[@h@7u@,@-C@o*@ O T  bN&:v _` Wll?Y#p$&(,*m(P##a.0#qvpp"pp" HL'@@;@@@8@U@ H/)h@@@@B@@@@\@@N@_@@+@l@Ls@y@/@A@X@8>#@@ @$@"@?@9I@@s@@ c@t}@p@@A@4@[@W@@( o wear not ly the Eagle"pp"pp&The Eagle Scout Badge (the ribboned Eagle Badge suspended from the silver scroll labled "Be Prepared") is to be worn on all FORMAL occasions, with preference to those occasions where Eagle Scouts are present or in which Eagle Scouts are to be honored. At all other times, ADULTS are to wear the Eagle Scout Square knot, if in uniform, or the Eagle tie-tac or lapel pin, if appropriate. YOUTH are to wear the Eagle Scout cloth badge ( the oval-shaped fully embrodered patch) centered on the left pocket of the field uniform) and NOT the square knot. The Eagle Palms (bronze for five merit badges over Eagle, gold for ten, silver for fifteen and combinations of the above for those above fifteen) are to be worn on the ribbon of the Eagle Scout Badge during FORMAL events and activities; centered on the square knot for ADULTS and centered on the Eagle of the cloth badge for YOUTH members at other times at the discretion of the wearer. The source for this information is the National Eagle Scout Service/National Eagle Scout Association and the Insignia Guide of the BSA. >please respond directly to me, as I have mail turned off on this list >for the summer. I've responded both to Greg as well as to the list, because this issue comes up several times during the year and it serves as a good reminder.  @ _  @  u E@  @ R @  I   < V@   D & >zBFZn~*nf j`^_5P$@>40O>R"p "pHH[` W66ubY0@&(*.,e(Pa<> ?? @"pp"pp"pp[` W6u)Y"p246:8e(Pa@B ? @"pp"pp"pp(   tive'ference, I 4ink he was Ae one that Nsted the in[ last fall hat made me und mine. ; -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= 'Fred Rogers4f Finally, Aout one monN after the [ange was anhunced, you uuld read abt in "Scoutg Arou$ArouJ  aibn&:N_` Wll?Y#p$&(,*m(PI I a.0I SU lppp"pp" b&@F @ Hw@GX S@@@WH@]L H/@A@$@@ @I;@J@ @@K@@v@d@ @v=<@\@@@@@?@`@G@D@A@$@?@HXD@G @BL@@8 B@ \@@H$ ">L "pp"pp  @    + E ' _  @ 8  y   R@  "  <  I p  /  V c    A @ [  } u@ 4 h  l  N   } > square knots (unless things have changed recently). Bruce, actually things have changed. According to the 1993 version of the Insignia Guide, palms may now be worn on the Eagle square knot. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- From: MX%"rfb@lehman.com" 9-JUN-1994 22:17:43.13 Reply-To: Rick Busdiecker I pushed it close enough that I didn't actually receive my Eagle award until I was serving as an adult leader -- I earned it within a month of turning 18. However, as an adult leader, I continued to wear not only the Eagle, but the Arrow of Light which was not on the recently posted list. Was I out of line in doing so? At the time (early 80s) I was under the impression that it was ok. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- From: BRUCE C JOHNSON Rick, You may wear the Eagle and Arrow of Light square knots but not the pocket patches, which are youth-only patches. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- From: Freemason@AOL.COM On Thu, 9 Jun 1994 08:00:08 GMT BRUCE C JOHNSON wrote: > greg: > The only youth ranks which may be worn on the adult uniform > are Eagle, Quartermaster, Ace, Silver, and Ranger. (That's the > emblems with ribbon pendants.) You may, of course, wear the > appropriate square knots. You may not wear the Eagle, Ace, > Silver, or Ranger patches. Eagle palms are not to be worn on > square knots (unless things have changed recently). You are correct on the rank awards which may be worn if earned as a youth. The medal awards are worn for formal occasions only, and those are defined in the Insignia Control Guide. Also, Eagle Palms may be worn on knots, if earned (see same guide, current edition); by all means wear them on the ribbon of the medal, if earned. A "clean" (meaning minimal decoration) uniform is in good taste, but if an adult desires to wear all that is allowed to be worn on a uniform at one time, that same adult needs to be sure the items are at the correct locations. Refer to Insignia Control Guide, and Uniform Inspection Sheets, male or female leaders, as applicable, for proper insignia locations. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- From: WKUVX2::WALTOML "Settummanque, the blackeagle" Gregory Marr writes: >what is the official policy regarding adults wearing the Eagle ribbon >(i.e. for Courts of Honor) and the wearing of palms on the eagle knot? >I've heard so many different versions that I don't know anymore. 0G &>zBFZn~*nf j`^_5P$@0=4C0=RHH[` W66ubY0@&(*.,e(Pa<> ?? @"pp"pp"pp[` W6u)Y"p246:8e(Pa@B ? @"pp"pp"pp(  as no information on' Supposedl4the 3 monthAwere eliminNed because [ many Eaglehnever receiud all theiralms due toge and the wai '-=-=-=-=-=-4= @AN>N[.BRfhu  ,E^_Xp$_X|DFD뭠@H`>P0G`H0CL0H0?pN+@p /TBPDP0FIVI Zp@k`E@o0D0IH0HИ@7p0E O` @DJ@0G0l`0H $p<xT