ESWDATWP00Eagletips Board "Guidelines")u)pB T}&* ,a a= D<&*  ap7u:NBDX HHHH@8,thdx]WdHHHH\dddddd@  :b& _` Wll?Y#p$&(,*m(Pa.0hifu wp p"pp" @??@z@@@h`g@F@[@_@78@@@t@Tp@@E@p@@#@SR@E@@@E+@b_@(@@G@zl@y@@@@\@@V@X@}@@cW@@Em@l,@@O@ @z " /  < I "pp"ppLJ @ " / I < c }  p@    N  ' [ u A @ 4  h    }learning. ) Both my boys finished their Eagle, as I did without this book, so it is not necesaary, but the best part is it points out the pit falls (why many never make it). How helpful can it be? While I sent a copy to my brother-in-law who's only son recently joined Boy Scouts (while he graduated from Webelos). My brother-in-law is a leader in the troop and his parents would not let him join scouting when he was a youth. He is just thrilled to be scouting now with his son. He was thrilled to death to receive the book. He read the entire book the day it arrived. (only 135 pages). Will his son become Eagle? I cannot predict that, but foime his comments like "I didn't know that", I am sure this book will go a long way in helping his son go for the Eagle. My personnal advice for anyone interested in earning Eagle: "The hardest part in reaching Eagle is NOT the requirements themselves, it is the sitting down and just DOING them (the requirements)." -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= From: Fred Rogers Subject: Re: Eagle Board On Thu, 20 May 1993 20:27:00 MST, Chris Haggerty writes: > > My personnal advice for anyone interested in earning Eagle: "The hardest > part in reaching Eagle is NOT the requirements themselves, it is the > sitting down and just DOING them (the requirements)." Chris, you have really hit a very important point here. I have seen too many young men who just could not (or would not) sit down and get started. The work is not that hard; sometimes just getting started is the obstacle. J .@ " / I < c }   @  N @  ' [ u A @ 4  h  @   x l d ouX WHY?" I also like to use Requirment six as a source of questions about what the youth is interested in. Since I am interested in finding out about the youth, I want him  aa aaDŃr?pqFrFrr"R"hG^WY&Rh"G^G^"hhh about(dpDFp7pB`=`0np7PBn>?0@@?0pA:(9@@>P?0<T< Aj4p @P,@0 =`0XA4P0(0p@LXy vote for or against his passing... (*8roll> &>zBFZn~*nf j`^_5P$@D40DR"p "pHH[` W66ubY0@&(*.,e(Pa<> ?? @"pp"pp"pp[` W6u)Y"p246:8e(Pa@B ? @"pp"pp"pp(  46Z9";'Y7/=4A \GENORKS\DOCUME[X@E 0h ~u0BANNERSPCX '4091BA X=P=N@ [=hY7X=PuN;215xV=PV? 0P&*@? 0 &*  = &b>zBFZn~*nf j`^_5P$@`D4 >`DRHH[` W66ubY0@&(*.,e(Pa<> ?? @"pp"pp"pp[` W6u)Y"p246:8e(Pa@B ? @"pp"pp"pp(   of a third generati'tulations t4Scott, and A you and thNfamily, and[y no means hast the entue troop andeaders of Stt's troop. Y 't who has w4cthat he stAd tall N his Eagle [ard of Revih. Funny, hu he didn't ke so much like$like@ w@b {@ A@= j@ W@ @uuff deleted...that he ood tall >  at his Ea e Board of view. Funny  ' 4 A N h [ u    + 8 E R _ l y             " / < I V c } p     Yes, its fincaly finished. My son Scott completed his borad of review last night, to complete an otherwise VERY DOWN day. Scott had been notified in the morning, that he had been cut from the high shool baseball team. All in all, I wonder which he will remember the most, 10 or twenty years from now? The fact that he could hardly swing a bat, because of a recently dislocated finger, plus new glasses, and an indoor batting machine, because of the blizzard of '93, or the fact that on this day, which could have otherwise been the worse day of his life, that he stood tall at his Eagle Board of Review. Funny, how he didn't like so much like a young kid when he stood up to the questions. On the way home, he was already talking about at least one PALM before the Jamboree. He didn't even mention baseball. Don Izard, father of a third generation Eagle scout! --=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Reply-To: SCOUTS-L Youth Groups Discussion List Sender: SCOUTS-L Youth Groups Discussion List Subject: Re: One more Eagle scout - at last!!! > ...........................stuff deleted.....that he stood tall > at his Eagle Board of Review. Funny, how he didn't like so much > like a young kid when he stood up to the questions. On the way > home, he was already talking about at least one PALM before the > Jamboree. He didn't even mention baseball. > > Don Izard, father of a third generation Eagle scout! > Don, Congratulations to Scott, and to you and the family, and by no means least the entire troop and leaders of Scott's troop. Your words above have very special meaning to any parent who has watched their son succeed. I am just as proud of him -- please tell him. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= From: Jim Sleezer Subject: BOR guidelines Don, I haven't seen any other replys on the list but wanted to share my experience when we talked about your suggested board of review guidelines at our last scout roundtable. We got hung up on the attend one summer camp in two years. It seems that in our council, once you have been to summer camp there is little incentive to return so the older scouts don't go and thus would not qualify. While I think we may have a problem at summer camp, I do question whether summer camp is a good measure. I would suggest some overall measure like participation in at least 50 percent of the troop activities including meetings, camping and service. The specific combination could be left up to the individual. a(: &>zBFZn~*nf j`^_Xp$@HH[` W66ubX00@&(*.,ea<> ?? @"pp"pp"pp[` W6u)X0"p246:8ea@B ? @"pp"pp"pp(   'Unnamed1 4 EAGTIPA.BSANUnnamed1 [ EAGTIP26hSAunamed1 EAGTIP27.BUnnam '40AATDP00bNlogo2[ZXSh4&6 BuEAGTIP.BSAESDD9  Fbn:N_` Wll?X0# p$&(,*m& & a.0 ppp"pp"pp" d1 EAGTIP23.BSA@]@@Ld@b@n@3@d@e@h@@*@+RPt@X@ j@Yl@n@@C@o@pF@@d@@_@}@N@*@@H@@@@]@Ae@_@]@l@aV@@[@7@@A@? @ @ @ @; @< #@ 7@ ;@ @> @:] Ae_"pp  ' 4 A N [ h u    + 8 R E _ l y             " / < I V c p }     B (*brief note: Don Izard and I have been discussing this issue earlier this past spring...you might want to check out the log entries and read those... or ask Don (since I have since "zapped" it) for the "Eagle file" that I sent him containing the discussion on all aspects of the Eagle Scout process...its good reading, no matter which side you are on!*) the ACTUAL standards are set by the unit and the Council of which approves the award and sends it to the National offices....the Council has their bee-hind on the line, right along with the Scout. I have said this comment before, and it still stands (with contriversy): the Eagle Scout Badge is the highest award that the BSA can present to a youth for leadership, service and dedication to the program. To cheapen it by presenting it to any boy that "stuck it out long enough" to get it gives evey Eagle Scout a bad taste in their mouth...and to "give it to him" just because he was in the Troop for a while and the father is active (whatever that word means, nowadays!) is kicking every Eagle Scout that have ever earned the award the HARD, ARDUOUS WAY in the private parts! It hurts and we should NOT be doing it, for whatever the reason is. If the unit has a policy, then the policy is there for ALL Scouts to follow. (*final thought: What Chris stated about the Explorer Post is true, and if he TRULY wants the Eagle, instead of crying about it from the Troop...he should seek out the Medical Post, earn the badge and become a active member of that unit!!*) ------=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Sender: SCOUTS-L Youth Groups Discussion List From: Fred Rogers Subject: Eagle Board of Review Guidelines The document which I have sent to some people and which I have mentioned a few times is now available on the list server as SCOUTS-L EAGLEBOR. This is a document which we put together to help Scoutmaster, Scouts, and parents prepare for the Eagle board of review. If you have any questions or comments on the document, please send them to me. We are interested in improving the document however we can. Many thanks to Jon Eidson for his help in making this available on the list server. [Note: this item is available by EAGTIP.BSA in this collection. ] -----=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Reply-To: SCOUTS-L Youth Groups Discussion List From: Don Izard Subject: One more Eagle scout - at last!!! I wish to thank the contributors to this list for all the help and guidance they have provided. Scouters from this list had a definite impact one one scout in the Boy Scouts of America, achieving the Eagle award, or the highest rank in BSA. @ &>zBFZn~*nf j`^_Xp$@HH[` W66ubX00@&(*.,ea<> ?? @"pp"pp"pp[` W6u)X0" p246:8ea@B ? @"pp"pp"pp(  'P`p4PA0N[Phu P '4 @AN>N[.BRfhu  ,E^_Xp$_XP?  :bnN2_` Wll?X0# p$&(,*ma.0 ppp"pp"pp" )X"<246:8e"pp@G@h@H@@@@K@#p@kB@]@^@-@C^@@NPB@]V@[@@5Z@}]@O@@ Q@Qp@1@(@H@#@;@<J@ @@e@e@Qv@f@b@/g@|c@e@ a@_ |@ @N cH @ r@ {@8 O@~ @ @ w@ @/ @s from our oop at Camparton that mmer... I ill be intducing your  ' 4 A N [ h u    + 8 E R _ l y             " / I < V c p }     { SO, any other comments ? Our next committee metting is next TUesday. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= From: Fred Rogers Subject: BOR Guidelines Don, let me throw in a couple of thoughts. First of all, I LIKE the format which separates GOALS and GUIDELINES. It is important to set the goals high, as you pointed out. It is also important to realize that a scout can be worthy of Eagle without reaching ALL of the goals. That is where the guidelines come in. You are right when you say they are guidelines and must be considered as such. The Board of Review must take the total picture into account and reach its decision. I also agree that having the older scouts at summer camp is very important. It is also very difficult to achieve. I am happy if I can get enough of the older ones there to run things and help the younger scouts. The toughest year I had at summer camp was 1990. I did not become SM until September. During the summer I was ASM and the man who was SM took a dozen scouts from the troop to the Danish National Jamboree. I took the rest to summer camp. Needless to say, there were not many older scouts from our troop at Camp Barton that summer... I will be introducing your guidelines at our council advancement committee meeting Monday night. I will let you know what comments are received. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Hilding Holroyd Subject: BOR Guidelines Having just subscribed to this list, I did not see the original posting. But I think that I can get the general gist of the query... Do not make summer camp a requirement for a rank advancement. Yes it should be a PART of scout spirit, but do not make it a requirement. I was one scout who never went to camp until I worked there. There are many who won't go due to the reasons already posted (financial, family obligations). Judge the scout on what he has accomplished, not on what he did not do. The SM should take care of the 'you did not do this or that' relating to any Leadership positions which the scout may hold. For the lower ranks, yes, the BOR can 'fail' a scout if he shows that he does not know skills (knots, first aid - selected questions only, not a grilling), then he can be asked to go relearn them, coming back the following week or 2. But set a specific date, do not say 'come back when you know it'. The BOR, in my opinion, cannot 'fail' a scout because they feel he has not completed a Merit Badge correctly. That was entirely up to the counselor. If you think that the councilor did not do his job correctly in testing the scout on the MB, then do not send anyone else to the councilor. You cannot penalize the scout for a councilor's poor job. To me the important part is to see what the scout accomplished and learned. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Subj: Re: Eagle Board Reply-To: SCOUTS-L Youth Groups Discussion List From: "Chris Haggerty, Sierra Vista, Arizona" S(. I< &}>zBFZn~*nf j`^_Xp$@HH[` W66ubX00@&(*.,ea<> ?? @"pp"pp"pp[` W6u)X0" p246:8ea@B ? @"pp"pp"pp(  '40AINm a strong [liever in shmer camp, bu remember seral boys fm my "youth" t 'y obligatio4 @A}N>N[.BRfhu  ,E^_Xp$_X< \ bn>R_` Wll?X0#p$&(,*mLLa.0pp p"pp"pp" @??  ' 4 A N [ h u    + 8 E R _ l y             " / < I V c p }     "pp@I@u@h@i@,@T@Uq@N@KP.m@y=@ @@e@HO@dPj@&f@o`@@@@@@a@@@f@@@\@P@fM@O@3_@y@V@_@L@M@y@_@( e@p n@ @ W@D `@ y@ @ R@ R@^ U@ x@ @h\PfMO 3_y I am a strong believer in summer camp, but remember several boys from my "youth" troop who could not attend summer camp because of family obligations or some other "equivalent" reason. They did virtually everything else and in my opinion more than met the requirements for scout spirit. But, under your guidelines they would not qualify. I would prefer to see something that says evaluate scout spirit by evaluating whether the scout is one you would be pleased to identify as a scout; evaluate scout participation by evaluating whether the scout met the committments he made to the unit and other scouts. I have difficulty when one tries to quantify these measures. Sure, it's nice to have clear, objective criteria; I just don't think it works very well. What I have used in the past is to ask the scout whether he felt he met the criteria and if so, how. If I didn't agree, we usually got around to the scout identifying his short comings in these areas and agreed to meet in a few weeks to see if things had changed. I never remember a problem with this process but do remember one scout who decided that he really wasn't committed to being a scout and left the troop. He went on to other good things that better met his needs. Enough of my thoughts, how about some other responses. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= From: Don Izard Subject: Re: BOR guidelines Thanks to Jim for the only comments on our proposed "YARD stick" for measuring those soemwhat subject areas on the BOR's. First let me respond with what our goal was is to place a GOAL before the scouts and parents. A HIGHer goal than might be expected, but we expect only the BEST to becom Eagle scouts! Then again this is intended as a GUIDELINE not an absolute rule, but rather a starting point to have some point of common reference. OUR troop expects the OLDER scouts to RUN The troop, even at summer camp. THe OLDer scouts are also expect to help the younger scouts and show them the ropes at summer camp, as well as signing off on completed advancement items! SO, WE NEED and EXPECT our older scouts to be at summer camp! However, the entent of our guidelines was also to suggest that REASONABLE reasons would be considered, to include family obligations, summer school etc. We do not accept finances! WE provide enough opportunities for scouts to EARN their own way to camp! Scouts earn a share of POP corn money BOWL-A-THON money, and a HOLiday Wreath and candy sale. Also, if the family is truly "needy" the council provides some camperships and so do other organizations if you ask. We have had camperships sponsored by the AMerican LEgions, UNions, KNights of Columns, and even the PTA. BUT, again the GOAL is set high to have a high standard, and so the scouts know what is expected!!! That does not mean that exceptions can not be granted, that is up to the SCout MAster, THE PLC and the board of review. Again we are looking at a GUIDELINE not a RULE book! S A &>zBFZn~*nf j`^_Xp$@HH[` W66ubX00@&(*.,ea<> ?? @"pp"pp"pp[` W6u)X0"p246:8ea@B ? @"pp"pp"pp(  ^9` 'x_4` QY7_A9N^9`%[ hxu0d9E  '49f@A  NewNB< [OpenhB uClose  Save/ Save As = T<&* , a aPB  bN&:_` Wll?X#p$&(,*mX X a.0X ?A p p"pp" @??@<@  @@@@f#@@@@G @:@|@}@a~b@ @@@@q +@$ @s?@@9Z @@@@z@@% @L @ aM @ k@@I -   @<@  @ n@VF"pp"pp EAGTIP14 [this group of postings addresses board of review "guidelines" for usage by units conducting any board of review, particularily Eagle Boards. Again, please remember that these are for the most part, RECOMMENDED guidelines and NOT BSA policy (except where written) : ] Reply-To: SCOUTS-L Youth Groups Discussion List From: "Settummanque (or blackeagle)...it's still me!!!" Subject: Re: "ACTIVE" Why don't we just take out all of the rules of the Scouting program and make it so everyone can become an Eagle Scout within six months of joining?? Why don't we take all of the requirements for the leadership positions and the service projects and say "Well...you CAN do this...but you don't have to. You'll still become an Eagle Scout, because that's the way Scouting is..." Yes, this response is a bit (a LOT) cynical but it cuts to the chase in this question. Sue, I agree with Chris. If a Troop, Team or Post has ESTABLISHED RULES (that is, rules in which ALL members know about at the time of their enrollment; rules established by the youth of that unit and approved by the adult committee and its volunteer "coach" as to fairness), then that young man has not a leg to stand upon. And neither does his father. The problem is, with any program there comes a set of standards. There is the BSA's standards...which ALL members must follow. Then there are those standards that the BSA left up to each of its 412 Councils and in turn, to each Pack, Troop, Team, Post or Ship to modify and suit to its own locality. What could be "active" in Harlem, New York could be "inactivity" in Paris, Kentucky or Tuscon, Arizona. That was one of the reasons why the BSA left the "leadership requirement" and the "tenure" time (as what constitutes "active") to each unit to decide upon. We even give out a "attendance award" (what used to be called a "perfect attendance award") to members based ON CRITERIA SET BY THE UNIT. Yes, he met the BSA's standards...but those, Griz, are BASELINE standards. If I was a member of his Eagle Board, I would have asked him the following questions..... * What MAKES you an Eagle Scout?? * How have you managed to "make up" for the Scouting activity you missed? * Please tell me about the kinds of leadership you have been doing with those other groups. * Please tell me about the kinds of service you have given to this community while a member of those other groups. Based upon the answers to those questions, I would then cast my vote for or against his passing... (*brief note: Don Izard and I have been discussing this issue earlier this past spring...you might want to check out the log entries and read those... or ask Don (since I have since "zapped" it) for the "Eagle file" that I sent him containing the discussion on all aspects of the Eagle Scout process...its good reading, no matter which side you are on!*)  '  @ 4 A N [ h u  @ @   @ 8 E R  y   _ l@  @   @  " / < I V p  }@  +  c   ` P A  }bn&:N_` Wll?Y# p$&(,*m( P5 5 a.0V5  ( p pp"pp" @??@ @. @@l@@ j@@M@ w @I @@PV@[N@U@@ @@R @T@Y@vZ@@2 @`@@|@@ @ @@`t@@xy@y5 @ @ & ...that he ood tall >  at his Ea e Board of view. Funny"pp"ppA    + 8 E R _ l  y@   @      @ " < I /@ c p   }@ 4 N '@ h [  @ u   @    9 Reply-To: SCOUTS-L Youth Groups Discussion List Sender: SCOUTS-L Youth Groups Discussion List Subject: Re: One more Eagle scout - at last!!! > ...........................stuff deleted.....that he stood tall > at his Eagle Board of Review. Funny, how he didn't like so much > like a young kid when he stood up to the questions. On the way > home, he was already talking about at least one PALM before the > Jamboree. He didn't even mention baseball. > > Don Izard, father of a third generation Eagle scout! > Don, Congratulations to Scott, and to you and the family, and by no means least the entire troop and leaders of Scott's troop. Your words above have very special meaning to any parent who has watched their son succeed. I am just as proud of him -- please tell him. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= From: Jim Sleezer Subject: BOR guidelines Don, I haven't seen any other replys on the list but wanted to share my experience when we talked about your suggested board of review guidelines at our last scout roundtable. We got hung up on the attend one summer camp in two years. It seems that in our council, once you have been to summer camp there is little incentive to return so the older scouts don't go and thus would not qualify. While I think we may have a problem at summer camp, I do question whether summer camp is a good measure. I would suggest some overall measure like participation in at least 50 percent of the troop activities including meetings, camping and service. The specific combination could be left up to the individual. I am a strong believer in summer camp, but remember several boys from my "youth" troop who could not attend summer camp because of family obligations or some other "equivalent" reason. They did virtually everything else and in my opinion more than met the requirements for scout spirit. But, under your guidelines they would not qualify. I would prefer to see something that says evaluate scout spirit by evaluating whether the scout is one you would be pleased to identify as a scout; evaluate scout participation by evaluating whether the scout met the committments he made to the unit and other scouts. I have difficulty when one tries to quantify these measures. Sure, it's nice to have clear, objective criteria; I just don't think it works very well. What I have used in the past is to ask the scout whether he felt he met the criteria and if so, how. If I didn't agree, we usually got around to the scout identifying his short comings in these areas and agreed to meet in a few weeks to see if things had changed. I never remember a problem with this process but do remember one scout who decided that he really wasn't committed to being a scout and left the troop. He went on to other good things that better met his needs. Enough of my thoughts, how about some other responses. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= From: Don Izard E Pssio9  Fbn&:N_` Wll?X# p$&(,*m& & a.0&  y ppp"pp" d1 EAGTIP23.BSA@#@. @  @ @! Y@@ )A@M@ @ F@P@Qd@@^; @@@1@e@@P@G@ @ @3@4 @@ @@#@p@@@  ` @ @# } ] Ae_"pp"pph u @ N @    + R E 8@ l y     @  @   "  < I V c p  @ /  ' [  @ _    }@  4  v the ACTUAL standards are set by the unit and the Council of which approves the award and sends it to the National offices....the Council has their bee-hind on the line, right along with the Scout. I have said this comment before, and it still stands (with contriversy): the Eagle Scout Badge is the highest award that the BSA can present to a youth for leadership, service and dedication to the program. To cheapen it by presenting it to any boy that "stuck it out long enough" to get it gives evey Eagle Scout a bad taste in their mouth...and to "give it to him" just because he was in the Troop for a while and the father is active (whatever that word means, nowadays!) is kicking every Eagle Scout that have ever earned the award the HARD, ARDUOUS WAY in the private parts! It hurts and we should NOT be doing it, for whatever the reason is. If the unit has a policy, then the policy is there for ALL Scouts to follow. (*final thought: What Chris stated about the Explorer Post is true, and if he TRULY wants the Eagle, instead of crying about it from the Troop...he should seek out the Medical Post, earn the badge and become a active member of that unit!!*) ------=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Sender: SCOUTS-L Youth Groups Discussion List From: Fred Rogers Subject: Eagle Board of Review Guidelines The document which I have sent to some people and which I have mentioned a few times is now available on the list server as SCOUTS-L EAGLEBOR. This is a document which we put together to help Scoutmaster, Scouts, and parents prepare for the Eagle board of review. If you have any questions or comments on the document, please send them to me. We are interested in improving the document however we can. Many thanks to Jon Eidson for his help in making this available on the list server. [Note: this item is available by EAGTIP15 .BSA in this collection. ] -----=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Reply-To: SCOUTS-L Youth Groups Discussion List From: Don Izard Subject: One more Eagle scout - at last!!! I wish to thank the contributors to this list for all the help and guidance they have provided. Scouters from this list had a definite impact one one scout in the Boy Scouts of America, achieving the Eagle award, or the highest rank in BSA. Yes, its fincaly finished. My son Scott completed his board of review last night, to complete an otherwise VERY DOWN day. Scott had been notified in the morning, that he had been cut from thehigh shool baseball team. All in all, I wonder which he will remember the most, 10 or twenty years from now? The fact that he could hardly swing a bat, because of a recently dislocated finger, plus new glasses, and an indoor batting machine, because of the blizzard of '93, or the fact that on this day, which could have otherwise been the worse day of his life, that he stood tall at his Eagle Board of Review. Funny, how he didn't like so much like a young kid when he stood up to the questions. On the way home, he was already talking about at least one PALM before the Jamboree. He didn't even mention baseball. Don Izard, father of a third generation Eagle scout! --=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= rd and sP?  :b~J6^_` Wll?Y# p$&(,*m(Pa.0iu | ppp"pp" )X"<246:8e@X@@o@@!4@@,-@ @s < Y@& |@R  @ ,   @; @ pX s@JB@ @@'@Z@|> v@E =^@ !@@@w@&D @F _@arton that mmer... I ill be intducing your$"pp % & + "pp       " / I < V p @ }     N  A 4@ [ u h y@ @  + 8 @   E  l@ _   c  R   Do not make summer camp a requirement for a rank advancement. Yes it should be a PART of scout spirit, but do not make it a requirement. I was one scout who never went to camp until I worked there. There are many who won't go due to the reasons already posted (financial, family obligations). Judge the scout on what he has accomplished, not on what he did not do. The SM should take care of the 'you did not do this or that' relating to any Leadership positions which the scout may hold. For the lower ranks, yes, the BOR can 'fail' a scout if he shows that he does not know skills (knots, first aid - selected questions only, not a grilling), then he can be asked to go relearn them, coming back the following week or 2. But set a specific date, do not say 'come back when you know it'. The BOR, in my opinion, cannot 'fail' a scout because they feel he has not completed a Merit Badge correctly. That was entirely up to the counselor. If you think that the councilor did not do his job correctly in testing the scout on the MB, then do not send anyone else to the councilor. You cannot penalize the scout for a councilor's poor job. To me the important part is to see what the scout accomplished and learned. -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= Subj: Re: Eagle Board Reply-To: SCOUTS-L Youth Groups Discussion List From: "Chris Haggerty, Sierra Vista, Arizona" Sue, I am sure I will be too late for this round but here is a general idea about the Boards of Review for Eagle. RE: The district/Council Representative is there because this is the highest award that National has for youth members. He/she is the quality control person (one way to think of this person.) Once the Board of Review is passed, the youth is AN EAGLE SCOUT. This is why this meeting is important. I have sat in on many Eagle Boards of review and went through one as a youth. Everyone tends to have his own idea of what should be asked at the Eagle Scout Boards of Review. I like ot avoid Yes/No questions. If I ask directly about the Scout Oath or Law the question is usually like "Which point of the Scout Law is the most important to you and WHY?" I also like to use Requirment six as a source of questions about what the youth is interested in. Since I am interested in finding out about the youth, I want him to talk about himself. Last, I try to make the Board of review a learning experience. Not so much as for the youth about scouting, but to try and get the youth THINKING about himself, his future, and just plain think about things that we generally do not slow down enought to think about. A last note about a reference book for scouts who are serious about becoming Eagles and for Scout Leaders who want their scouts to earn Eagle. This is not an Official BSA publication and I do not get any kick-backs. I came accross this book by accident. It appears to have been written by a LDS couple (this is not directly stated in the book, but the references in the book tend to give this away). They are the parents of five Eagle Scouts. I recently purchased five copies for 8.98 plus 2.95 shipping (for all five) from HORIZON PUBLISHERS & DISTRIBUTORS, 50 SOUTH 500 WEST. P.O. BOX 490, BOUNTIFUL, UTAH, 84010. PHONE (801) 295-9451. The book is "GO FOR THE EAGLE" number 2017. It covers a lot of the things I have picked up in my over 25 years of scouting. It does not cover all I know, but it did bring up a few things I was not aware of. (We just seem to always keep on <  bn&:N_` Wll?Y#p$&(,*m( P a.0 iiapp p"pp" @??@U@  @ >@@ @.@L@ @; H @ ?B @  @r@@q 8@ @@@V @#@@RW _@p@-^@ v@JC@?@@Ve/@ (@fMO 3_y"pp"ppR  E @ y   @    l@    "   I c /@ p }   V@  N  h  u@ A 4@ [  + @ _  @   ' <`  Subject: Re: BOR guidelines Thanks to Jim for the only comments on our proposed "YARD stick" for measuring those somewhat subject areas on the BOR's. First let me respond with what our goal was is to place a GOAL before the scouts and parents. A HIGHer goal than might be expected, but we expect only the BEST to becom Eagle scouts! Then again this is intended as a GUIDELINE not an absolute rule, but rather a starting point to have some point of common reference. OUR troop expects theOLDER scouts to RUN The troop, even at summer camp. THe OLDer scouts are also expect to help the younger scouts and show them the ropes at summer camp, as well as signing off on completed advancement items! SO, WE NEED and EXPECT our older scouts to be at summer camp! However, the entent of our guidelines was also to suggest that REASONABLE reasons would be considered, to include family obligations, summer school etc. We do not accept finances! WE provide enough opportunities for scouts to EARN their own way to camp! Scouts earn a share of POP corn money BOWL-A-THON money, and a HOLiday Wreath and candy sale. Also, if the family is truly "needy" the council provides some camperships and so do other organizations if you ask. We have had camperships sponsored by the AMerican LEgions, UNions, KNights of Columns, and even the PTA. BUT, again the GOAL is set high to have a high standard, and so the scouts know what is expected!!! That does not mean that exceptions can not be granted, that is up to the SCout MAster, THE PLC and the board of review. Again we are looking at a GUIDELINE not a RULE book! SO, any other comments ? Our next committee metting is next TUesday. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= From: Fred Rogers Subject: BOR Guidelines Don, let me throw in a couple of thoughts. First of all, I LIKE the format which separates GOALS and GUIDELINES. It is important to set the goals high, as you pointed out. It is also important to realize that a scout can be worthy of Eagle without reaching ALL of the goals. That is where the guidelines come in. You are right when you say they are guidelines and must be considered as such. The Board of Review must take the total picture into account and reach its decision. I also agree that having the older scouts at summer camp is very important. It is also very difficult to achieve. I am happy if I can get enough of the older ones there to run things and help the younger scouts. The toughest year I had at summer camp was 1990. I did not become SM until September. During the summer I was ASM and the man who was SM took a dozen scouts from the troop to the Danish National Jamboree. I took the rest to summer camp. Needless to say, there were not many older scouts from our troop at Camp Barton that summer... I will be introducing your guidelines at our council advancement committee meeting Monday night. I will let you know what comments are received. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- From: Hilding Holroyd Subject: BOR Guidelines Having just subscribed to this list, I did not see the original posting. But I think that I can get the general gist of the query... p