ESWDATWP00Eagletips MB Documentation@E 0V&*p? T &* ,a a? D &*  a> :N{}>{BDX HHHH@8,thEd]WdHHHH \ddddddA  bn&:N_` Wll?X#p$&(,*mm m a.0pm c p p"pp" 0C@E@<@  h@ @H@@W@@#@@]@N @@PU@j @@M8@ @@ @P@DQ@@t@ D@ @V@|@} @@E@ @]?@l@" Tm @il right (sie the cardsome in from ummer camp)Haven't been"pp"pp ' 4  N @ h u @   @ 8 R _ E@ y  A@   @      " / I V <@   }@   [ @ + l   c  ` q EAGTIP08 [While this has been going on for some time, this topic brings home the facts that ALL merit badges MUST be completed with APPROVED Merit Badge Counselors; that it does NOT matter where the Scout earned the Badge; and that it is IMPORTANT that copies of the completion card be RETAINED by the Scout in order to expedite verification of the other two points at Eagle Scout Application time.] Subj: Earn merit badges @ another Council From: "GS-12 Daniel R. Mott Mr" Hello, I just received a call from a committee member in my zone. He has a boy in is unit who has earned 13 merit badges recently 11 required, the rub is, is that they were earned in the neighboring council to the south in his uncle's unit. The question is, can is there a problem earning the badges in the other council ad will there be a problem when if and when he comes up for his eagle board of review. The committee member talked to the district advancement chairman's wife (who works with him on advancement) and she said they needed to earned locally (this made the mother of the boy upset, especially since she put a high store in her brother's unit). The person in charge of the council service center seems to think it all right (since the cards come in from summer camp). Haven't been able to reach the district advancement chairman yet. He is down at his uncle's on a regular basis (once or twice a month on the weekends and more in the summer). Just receive a vistor hae to leave for now. Any answers would be apprciated. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= From: Ian Ford Dan - I can't think there should be any problem, that the counselors were registered with the relevant Council and were duly authorised for that badge. Here in TAC we regularly get kids who go back Stateside for the Summer vacation and come back with cards from all over, but it has never been a problem. Likewise when kids transfer back to USAfrom our troop they will have our Council cards plus those from wherever the kid was on camp, the unit he joined us from, etc. ... No doubt your Advancement Chairman will explain the position. but IMHO there should not be a problem. Certainly we have had kids earn Eagle within the last few months with MB cards from several different councils, and nobody had a heart attack over it! =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= From: Olan Watkins To Dan Mott This is just an opinion, but I would thing that if they were all pretty much earned in Summer Camp they should be acceptable. & & >zBFZn~*nf j`^_X$@RHH[` W66ubX0@&(*.,ea<> ?? @"pp"pp"pp[` W6u)X"p246:8ea@B ? @"pp"pp"pp(  [h0'meogic to4t, bu A N['athh not m4suA GEOWORN& [ncel 'B4AN[hu<VXcxVPA 0&* 4 D bn&:N_` Wll?Y# p$&(,*m(Q a.0  ! p pp"pp" 0C@E@j#@@ @=@q, @ |@ r@@c @ @G@g@h@5 z@_@ $y  @"@9#z@^ @@o@@ @/!@@Z @ E @@#@iow this is ndled. WheI was near e council bder, we had "pp"pp  @  E + _ l  @     @    / 8@ < V c I@ p "  @  4  A u N [@ ' h R y  @  }@   >other council ad will there be a problem when if and when he comes up >for his eagle board of review. Only if your Council makes it an issue. The BSA's National Executive Board has upheld several times that advancement or achievement awards which are part of the BSA's program (or elements of that program) can be worn and used to meet advancement in any other local Council or through the Direct Service. Your Council Executive should know this...it is a part of the training core of every professional. The only problem will be in the local Council's verification of the merit badges....and in that case, copies of the signed/completed merit badges attached to the application is all that's needed (and then, it's only used as a backup to contacting that other local Council. Camp Directors are required to maintain lists of all merit badges earned by members of their Council, outside their Council, and by Direct Service Council Scouts...and to send a copy of the report to those other Councils and to their Regional Service Center for posting.) Most local Councils won't even check out-of-Council merit badges if it is noted on the application...some will check with the other Council's unit to see if that Scout was ever a participant....and a few (and only a few) have a policy that states that all merit badges required for Eagle MUST be earned in their local Council (and ignoring National policy). "Side with the Scout". The Council's Advancement Chair and the (Council) Scout Executive are the final authorities in that local Council, Dan.... Besides, when the application reaches the National Office, the merit badges which were earned out-of-council will be verified with the Regional office as part of the verification and approval process. So, I wouldn't worry about it unless your local Council has a WRITTENPOLICY which states that "(required) merit badges used toward Eagle must be earned in this local Council to be considered "earned" " and that transferred merit badges cannot be used for Eagle. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= From: Norman J MacLeod Olan - Summer camp should have nothing to do with it. In a military community like the query came from, you get Scouts with merit badges and ranks earned in as many as six councils before they get their Eagles. I've never seen a BSA council or unit have a problem with that, so why should there be a problem here? =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= From: Norman J MacLeod I can't imagine that Bonneville or any other council should have a problem with merit badges earned in another council as long as the badge-earning is on the up and up. After all, we (especially in military communites - yes, I noticed, used to be at Hill meself) get kids who have transferred several times before it comes time for the Eagle application. As long as everything is in order,I have yet to see the Eagle refused, though I have seen units have a dickesn of a time getting all the stuff wrapped together if the family wasn't on top of things or the movers fouled up. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= From: Norman J MacLeod m if and @C &>zBFZn~*nf j`^_5Q$@ A4@ ARHH[` W66ubY0@&(*.,e(Qa<> ?? @"pp"pp"pp[` W6u)Y"p246:8e(Qa@B ? @"pp"pp"pp(  w@'@v74@A@N@f[@,~h@yu@@p@ '4tee has reAonsibilit fN defining h[ this is hahled. When uwas near thcouncil borr, we $ we @ 8 bn&Z:_` Wll?X# p$&(,*m a.0p P: ' ppp"pp" 0C@E@m @ @@- @@.@ @@s Z@F7@ >/@@ @z@{@f@~@I@@@<@ @N@@0 @@@7@8[@u@sv@@oM@{ (4@@@V h@ @@@6@. Wn u  "pp[ A @ u   + E R 8@ y l@   @        @  / < V c "@ }   @  N@ '  h _  I@  "pp From: Olan Watkins A lot of councils very likely would like to keep their units in council for summer camp with the threat that the merit badges from out of council might not be acceptable, but I don't think that would fly. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= From: Jim Sleezer On Mon, 21 Mar 1994 00:41:00 BST Olan Watkins said: >A lot of councils very likely would like to keep their units in council for >summer camp with the threat that the merit badges from out of council might >not be acceptable, but I don't think that would fly. I have camped out of council and had no problem with MBs being accepted in home council. I believe the council advancement committee has responsibility for defining how this is handled. When I was near the council border, we had to get an okay from home council before working on a merit badge with an "out of council" counselor. Mostly it was a formality. Several counselors were registered in both councils. What about all those scouts I counseled when I worked at a council camp and wasn't registered in that council--on the 21 years I spent on camp staff, only two were in my home council. BTW, any merit badge earned in summer camp is suspect in my book. Camps always seem to modify the requirements--sometimes I wonder if it is the same merit badge as listed in the book!! ;-) =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= From: "Settummanque, the blackeagle" "GS-12 Daniel R. Mott Mr" writes: Hi Dan! Hope your company was as lively as ours was today...I'll tell everyone about it a little later on this evening.... The greatest thing about the BSA being a national organization (indeed, with the overseas Councils and the Direct Service, an international one) is the ability of its members, youth and adult to "jump" from location to location with little or no detriment to their individual program. Therefore, a Cub Scout that has just completed everything toward the Traveler Activity Badge while with his Dad on the west coast can receive it at a Pack meeting in Kentucky the following month, with his Mom looking on. Likewise, the adult tenure earned at one location can be used at any other location as long as the person is registered. So, in knowing all of this, it's really weird that the District folks in your area haven't applied a little "Scouting Sense" and figured this one out themselves. But, here're the answers... >I just received a call from a committee member in my zone. He has a >boy in is unit wh has earned 13 merit badges recently 11 required, the >rub is, is that they were earned in the neighboring council to the >south in his uncle's unit. In other words, he earned them while registered as a Boy Scout in the unit in your community. Okay... >The question is, can is there a problem earning the badges in the unit3 &&>zBFZn~*nf j`^_X$@RHH[` W66ubX0@&(*.,ea<> ?? @"pp"pp"pp[` W6u)X" p246:8ea@B ? @"pp"pp"pp(  m Life MB B('WDA4WP00EaglAips Eagle aN Fam Life M[ R(hEAGTIP19.uAESWDWP00Eaglet 'ES4@nAqv[Nz _[vhSnuX  00C t bn&:N_` Wll?Y# p$&(,*m(Q a.0   ppp"pp" 0C@EM @/@@o@ @T b@@<@( @A b +@@>@# @)@ |@5@l @^B  @{5 b@ @1@Et2@ @^@R_@ [@@@@Pn@@@a  "pp"pp   A@    " @ / I V  } <@   @ p h@  u  '@ 8 4  _ E@ y    @   c [   @ N@ R l  district chairman who also then talked to the district executive. The ultimate consensus was that it wold be okay. So at this point Brent (the committee member, a former assistant district commisioner, Varsity and Explorer committee person himself) said that it looked like it had been straightened out. One of the things that concrned Brent was that these merit badges had been earned on a regular basis down in the National Parks Council at is Uncle's place (about 50 miles south in Utah County) with counselor's down there (not summer camp) and he didn't know what national's policy was in this case. There also was a bit of a problem in that the mother thought that her brother's troop was better in some way then the one around here. So that put Brent on the wrong side of the fence when he received his first answer from district. So when he got the a conlicting answer from the council service center when they decided to honor the merit badge cards from the other council, he got really confused. He was concerned because when the boy and if the boy came up for his Eagle Board of Review, hw wanted to make sure that there wouldn't be any problems. He also has been working with a boy whose parents have just a few months ago moved down fro Canada and had received the equivalent I believe of BSA's Eagle Scout there and was working on transferring Canadian requirements into Boy Scout Requirements and advancements. But that is another question and I shouldn't confuse the issue too much here. Once again thanks for all your help, I'l pass your information on. P.S. By the way, I commute a fair distance to work (45 miles to the north near Odgen, Utah at hill Air Force Base), so the units I work with are located in southwest Salt Lake County, not near the base. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= From: "Chris Haggerty, Sierra Vista, Arizona" Dan, Earning merit badges in another council should not be a problem as everyone has indicated, but there is one aspect which could throw a wet towel on the issue. The decision will lie pirmary with the youths Scoutmaster. The process for earning merit badges (it is outlined in serveral places including the BSA Handbook if memory servers me correctly-I am at work, so no references available) includes the scout getting permission from HIS SCOUTMASTER to work on the merit badge which comes in the form of the Scoutmasters signature on the merit badge card. The youth normally will get counselor names from the Scoutmaster. The one question I would have is WHO SIGN THE MERIT BADGE CARDS AS SCOUTMASTER? The other issue here is who verifies that the person signing the merit badge card is a registered counselor. The district/council may provide the resources (merit badge counselor lists) to do this, but the responsibility of verification in most councils is with the unit. It is rare when a district or council will do this, most never see the merit badge cards. Verification at the council level of merit badges earned is generally done by looking at Unit advancement records. If the process was not followed (no Scoutmaster approval), then I would still present the scout with the merit badges if I could verify that he did indeed earn them. I would then be clear with rict exe`A &@>zBFZn~*nf j`^_5Q$@@4 3@RHH[` W66ubY0@&(*.,e(Qa<> ?? @"pp"pp"pp[` W6u)Y" p246:8e(Qa@B ? @"pp"pp"pp(   Only if your'he BSA's Na4onal ExecutAe Board hasNpheld sever[ time(h u,  'ES4WDATAWP00EagleNps Eagle an[Fam Life MBh 3(uEAGTIP17.BESWDAT1   bn&:N_` Wll?Y#p$&(,*m(Q a.0  pp p"pp" 0C@E@ @@@Xn@ X,@ >@@ 5@ W& @S @ @T R@ j@X@d [@ @w+@@0@@j1X@  @pT @Xx2 @2Q @;K@e @g@t    .@,@"pp"pp8 E R @ l y     @  @   " @ I V <@ }  p@  4  @   A [  u N '  @ +  @ _  / @ h c Too true. I lived in the Bonneveille Council (the one concerned here) and we never had any problems with the numerous transfers of some of the Scouts due to military family life. I think Bonneville will accept the Scout's merit badges without any real question, as long as the badge requirements were completed and the counselors were appropriately registered in their local council. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= From: Ben Parker As long as the scout has the completed & signed MB cards there can be no problem. Just keep the pressure on the Dist Advancement Comm until you get that response. Yes, they have to work a little harder on verification, and they might prefer that the MB be earned in Ogden instead of Provo (I can't remember that Council's name), but they can't deny a scout proper credit for a MB completed by a duly registered MB counselor (somewhere). It is interesting that this discussion is occuring here now. On the Compuserve Scouting Forum (another electronic gathering place similar to this list) a Scout recently asked if it was 'legal' to earn a MB entirely on-line (via computer) with no in-person meetings. After some discussion about the appropriateness of this (some MB lend themselves to this very well, other would be very difficult) the consensus there was, "sure, why not..." but was qualified that the Scout seek the OK of his local MB counselor or District/Council advancement Comm first. Also that the paperwork would still be handled by mail. So far the Scout has not come back asking for a counselor, but he did appreciate all the info and promised to present it to his Scoutmaster to ask what to do. I earned Out-of-Council MB's when I was a Scout with no problem (I still have the MB Card too!). When Scouts earn MB at National events like the Jamboree or NOAC there is no question. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= From: Olan Watkins To Norman MacLeon Norman There should not be a problem, I agree. However, it sounded a little bit like there might have been some sour grapes about the kid spending so much time out of council, and for example if the kid's uncle who was the Scoutmaster of the out of council Troop had signed him off for all of the merit badges, then I can see why the council might have been concerned, but since they were all earned in a BSA Summer Camp there should not be any problem at all. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= From: "GS-12 Daniel R. Mott Mr" Hello everyone, I appreciate the rapid and kind respose to everyone to my question and here is the situation as it now stands. My vistor by the way was a local neighbor who dropped by on some local church business, then I attended the local court of honor and went to my brother-in-laws for a bithday gaherin for his daughter and my son. After that it was home to get the kid's asleep, watch star trek and here I am. I checked back with my comittee member in the neigbhoring troop in my zone (I am on the district boy scot advancement serving this zone) and since I had talked to him, had called the @ &<>zBFZn~*nf j`^_5Q$@PC42PCRHH[` W66ubY0@&(*.,e(Qa<> ?? @"pp"pp"pp[` W6u)Y"p246:8e(Qa@B ? @"pp"pp"pp(  w@'74@4A@AN@Nf[@[~h@hu@u@p@ '4ABN?@A"[@Ehu"C@E 0C ?  Xb:&N_` Wll?Y#p$&(,*m(4Q} } a.0} ffIp p"pp" 0C@E@c@@W@Z@o@N@Vh@@@mn@@fZh@yz@[@@9@(V @ @Z@a@@6 @c #@A@Pu@b<@`@/@@h@@"@@@|@Wp@(V@{_@@`@@m@# @> ch comes inhe form of t"pp"pp@ }   I@ ' [ @  @   @ @ 4 + R   _ y  E 8   @   l@    the scout and the mother about the process for earning merit badges and let them know that the information is in the scout handbook. (I am sticking my neck out by making an exception for them and expect the process to be followed in the future, since there will be no more exceptions for them-yes the socut can still earn the merit badges with his Uncles troop, but he better get it cleared with me FIRST). Last I get ahold of that uncle/Scoutmaster and ask what in the world was he doing. He should know the process. Why did he not direct his nephew to get approval to work on the merit badges from HIS SCOUTMASTER? Of course, if the scout HAD merit badge cards signed by his scoutmaster, then there is no problem (other than the unit verifing the merit badges counselors from the other council). =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= From: Fred Rogers I think Chris has really zeroed in on the real question. There is a well-defined process which must be followed. If that process is followed, it does not really matter who the counselor is or where he lives. Our district lies at the border of two councils. We have scouts who are registered in our council who attend school in Susquenango Council. Our council has no problem with out-of-council counselors (especially for badges that we have no counselor for!). We ask only that the scout go to those counselors with his Scoutmaster's knowledge and approval. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= From: George Huffman Dan, >The question is, can is there a problem earning the badges in the >other council ad will there be a problem when if and when he comes up >for his eagle board of review. There should be no problem. Merit badges do not have to be earned locally. Any such rule is contrary to national policy. I have been on several Eagle B of R in which merit badges were earned out of council such as: Space Exploration - earned at space camp, Backpacking - earned on wilderness backpacking in the west, Canoeing - earned at boundry waters, etc. Many Scouts transfer in from other councils with quite a few merit badges earned from original council. How would a Scout in Florida earn the Skiing merit badge if this policy were in effect? Remember that nobody can make up additional rules for merit badges and rank advancement! ? &>zBFZn~*nf j`^_54Q$@2432R"p "pHH[` W66ubY0@&(*.,e(4Qa<> ?? @"pp"pp"pp[` W6u)Y"p246:8e(4Qa@B ? @"pp"pp"pp(  @'4@44A@AAN@NN[@[[h@hhu@uu@@ '4A@@N@Zc[@h@u@Z=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-DF>p?`?P`>A`&@0B0PA04P@C`+@@/3@ACD`A`X1 \@ oL?r?P(@p4X|d